Anna ([info]troubleinchina) wrote,
@ 2009-05-19 20:09:00
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Current mood:angry

Feminism & Disability
Read me, warning for abusive language towards PWD and women whose children have disabilities

Dear Feministing folks,

Looking at the comment I've linked above, you might think "That's just someone being a jackass, it's not really abusive language." Except that it's part of the culture that exists in the comment section of many feminist sites that says Disability is the Worst! Thing! Evar! As though none of the readers of your site, or any other progressive site, will have disabilities, or have family members, friends, or lovers with disabilities or "birth defects".

It is difficult for me to believe or convince others that "feminism is for everyone" when these sort of toxic remarks are left unchecked, when ablist language is used as insults throughout comment sections, and when the rare times that women with disabilities are discussed seriously tend to focus entirely on reproductive choices, and not on accessibility issues, support issues, or the increased chances of abuse, be it sexual, physical, or emotional, that women with disabilities experience.

Frankly, the complete silence on the amount of written abuse that people with disabilities, or women whose children have disabilities, are getting in your comment section at the moment disturbs and distresses me. Although there is little you can do at this point regarding the post in question, I would appreciate it if you would consider this an actual problem - one that affects women and men who read your site. We exist. We're real. Like you, we're not made up of only our reproductive bits, and it would be nice to be considered when you make posts.

Women whose children are born with such "defects" are often held responsible for such things, or hold themselves responsible. They wonder what they did - did they eat the wrong thing? Did they exercise too much? Not enough? Did they go to the wrong doctor? If they had had the right test, what would have happened? When someone's response to an "undesirable" person becoming pregnant is to go "OMG! There may be birth defects! This can't be allowed to happen!", it plays into those beliefs and fears.

That's creating a culture of ablism, and further plays into the idea that there's something wrong with families who have children with disabilities, and that disabilities are something that doing all the "right" things will prevent.


Sincerely,

Me


Blog Only Tidbit:

Don's mom was older than 35 when she gave birth to him, a much-wanted and very loved child. As most of you know, Don has Marfan's Syndrome. It's normally genetic, and runs in families, but it popped up in Don, and no one else. It's a "birth defect".




(31 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]annaham
2009-05-19 11:29 pm UTC (link)
Excellent, excellent post. You said it more eloquently than I could ever hope to!

This is why I HATE Feministing with the fire of a thousand suns; the privilege, ability-wise, bodily and otherwise, over there runs pretty much unchecked.

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:09 pm UTC (link)
I really think they're still modding as though they get about the same number of comments that I do, and as though those comments don't create a certain atmosphere. *throws hands in air* I have no idea.

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(Anonymous)
2009-05-21 12:34 am UTC (link)
Yes. I never really got into feministing in the first place because it didn't feel welcoming, to me, and I'm a conventional hetero middle-class white chick, you know? I think they play an important role, but the movement is too poisoned for any community that large to keep it clean and ethical. Even if there were self-policing on issues of race, transgender, disability - which there clearly isn't.

amandaw (threeriversblog.com)

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[info]goldjadeocean
2009-05-19 11:36 pm UTC (link)
Anna, I love you.

I have birth defects, and it is not a fucking tragedy. Nor am I a heroic inspiration for getting out of bed in the morning.

Fuck Feministing. This kind of stuff happens too often there.

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:08 pm UTC (link)
*hug* True, all of it, true.

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[info]tiferet
2009-05-19 11:51 pm UTC (link)
I always find myself so upset by these situations, because I firmly believe that it is a woman's right to have any child she wants to have and also to decide not to have a child if she decides not to have that child; I want to take the people who think that ZOMG!women over 35 should not be allowed to breed EVAR! and the people who think that ZOMG!if you decide you're not up for the challenge of raising a Downs or spina bifida or whatever child you're Hitler, and knock their hard heads together till they get the point that choice is choice is choice is choice and none of those choices are theirs, ZOMG!

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[info]jesse_the_k
2009-05-20 12:22 am UTC (link)
Word McWorderson, to you, trouble, and you, ataniell

One of the lessons disability has taught me is we're not in control here. Women who think that prenatal diagnosis and abortion will guarantee their child won't be sick or injured are living in dream land.

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[info]tiferet
2009-05-20 12:31 am UTC (link)
...you may possibly have misunderstood my comment.

I don't think anyone has got the right to say "you shouldn't have a baby that might be disabled". I also don't think anyone has got the right to say, "if you know your baby is going to be disabled, you must have it."

Prenatal diagnosis gives you the odds. You then have to make a decision. Sometimes it's an easy decision--90% odds for nothing going wrong, 10% odds for something that is often not a very big problem.

Sometimes it's not so easy.

Whether it's easy or hard, and whether or not I agree with the choice, it's not my choice, it's the choice of the person whose body it is happening in.

Edited at 2009-05-20 12:33 am UTC

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:11 pm UTC (link)
*nodnod* Those mirror most of my thoughts on the subject. I wish we lived in a world where parenting a child with a disability was just as "easy" (as though it's ever easy!) as parenting a child who isn't disabled, but it's not.

I'm pro-choice no matter what, as I know you are.

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:10 pm UTC (link)
*nodnodnod*

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[info]marydell
2009-05-20 01:43 am UTC (link)
THANK YOU

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:07 pm UTC (link)
*hug*
Of course, now I want to snuggle your wee one! That's such an awesome pic! (is shallow)

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[info]marydell
2009-05-21 01:27 am UTC (link)
He is the most snuggly baby ever! Despite, ya know, the DEFECTIVENESS



ETA: I'm not saying everyone should want to parent a child with special needs...it's expensive, for one thing, and it can make it hard to meet the needs of the rest of your family, etc, and can be emotionally devastating for parents and the child when there is a life-shortening or otherwise really difficult condition. But the idea that it's morally wrong to risk creating a less-than-perfect child makes me INSANE.

Edited at 2009-05-21 01:37 am UTC

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[info]automaticdoor
2009-05-20 02:00 am UTC (link)
<3

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:07 pm UTC (link)
<3 <3
Your support means a lot to me. I know you're busy. <3

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[info]kittikattie
2009-05-20 04:51 am UTC (link)
Genetically speaking, no woman over the age of 35 should be having children.

A bit US Centric, but:

Sasha and Malia Obama would like to have to have some words with you. Also so would my little sister.

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:06 pm UTC (link)
It's a certain type of policing, isn't it?

(I didn't realise that about the Obamas!)

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[info]starbrow
2009-05-20 05:22 am UTC (link)
My mother had me at an optimum 28. I have a quite significant birth defect.

She had my youngest brother at age 37. He has no birth defects and is a perfect physical specimen.

*shakes head*

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:06 pm UTC (link)
<3

Well, I at least think you're a wonderful person, for what it's worth. <3

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[info]pocochina
2009-05-20 05:41 am UTC (link)
It's frustrating too because every word in the post is absolutely correct - so why walk away and let people get their hateful shit all over it?

It is difficult for me to believe or convince others that "feminism is for everyone"

Feminism as a philosophy is for everyone. The particular movements that work to put that philosophy into action are made up of humans who, quite frequently, whomp. I always cringe a little at "feminism is exclusive" because I know better than my multiplication tables that I'd never have come to terms with my disability (must write Epic Sleep and Sexism post) or gotten over my ED without feminism. Assholes who don't want that to have happened for me do not get to take my F-Card. Fuck them.

I remember when I used to read feministing all the time. Has the site changed, or have I just found websites that are more my speed and now I'm spoiled? I can't figger.

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:04 pm UTC (link)
I think part of it is that Feministing has become very large. When I first started reading it, it was still a Big Name Feminist Site, but it's got a large number of commentators, and doesn't have the ability to properly moderate that sort of thing.

I can't really cast stones because I'm a lousy moderator myself, but I also don't attempt to earn money from my writing here. So who knows.

I'm certain with you on the philosophy part, but the movement pains me so. Which isn't fair - it's not like any other movement is made up entirely of people who all agree on everything and behave perfectly all the time - but I dislike how much certain voices are prioritised and have become the "voice" or "face" for it, at least online.

I'm beginning to question whether I belong in the online movement at all, frankly.

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[info]annwfyn
2009-05-20 07:09 am UTC (link)
I'm really conflicted by that story. J's mother was in her 40s when he and his sister were born, and his father was a bit older. There's nothing wrong with either of them, but having older parents has actually been really quite tough in lots of ways, esp as parents actually are quite frail for their age (they are both in their 70s). A lot of things that normally you don't have to deal with til you're older in terms of being responsible for your parents, worrying about their health, coming to terms with their mortality have already come up.

And I know things can happen, and anyone can lose a parent at any time - I lost my mother at 20 due to cancer - but I also know that losing a parent young is really painful, and does leave this horrible hole in your life, and I just don't see why someone would have a kid in a situation in which the odds of that kid losing their parent at a young age go from 'possible' to 'highly probable'. And that's not to say 'all mothers should be under 35', but it is to say that I was uncomfortable with a 66 year old having birth, because that means that the child will be having to take on board the responsibilities associated with older parents whilst in its teens, which is sucky, and will probably be without a mother by its early twenties. Speaking as someone who had to take on carer type responsibilities for a parent in their teens, and was sans mother at 20, that sucks. Big time.

I feel similar about much older fathers. I had a friend at uni who's father was in his 80s (had married a much older woman) and I think that was actually quite tough for her.

Taking aside the 'birth defect' thing, which I agree people are being obnoxious about in a big way, I do think motherhood at 66 isn't necessarily fair on the offspring.

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:01 pm UTC (link)
I'm not really up for debating those sorts of things, I have to admit. It's just not a situation I think is best served by doing that, you know? (I hope I don't come across as angry at you for bringing it up!)

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[info]annwfyn
2009-05-20 04:03 pm UTC (link)
Oh, I understand. I'm sorry if I was insensitive at all. It's just something that touches on a lot of fairly painful issues in my own life - losing my Mum at an early age, watching J and his sister dealing with elderly parents whilst still quite young themselves etc.

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[info]troubleinchina
2009-05-20 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Oh no, you weren't insensitive! And I think your views on it are very important and relevant. I just don't have an opinion, you know?

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[info]dantesvendetta
2009-05-20 05:48 pm UTC (link)
Blah, I don't wanna comment on the age thing (I have issues with the concept that "all women have the right to have children"...)

HOWEVER

My eldest brother was born with a birth defect. He has two children. And he's one of hte best dads I've ever seen.

My dad had a birth defect. The same one my brother has. And he IS the best dad in the universe, bar none.

Nice to see that Eugenics is alive and kicking though. I should totally farm Phil out - he's blonde and hot and has no disabilities. I could make a mint apparently...

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[info]fantasyecho
2009-05-21 12:27 am UTC (link)
Nicely said. I have trouble with the concept of ablism and am trying my damnedest to confront my privilege on that issue. Perhaps Feministing needs a primer on ablism? I don't know =/

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(Anonymous)
2009-05-21 12:40 am UTC (link)
This is something the feminist in particular, and progressive more broadly, culture seems to understand when it is convenient enough for them: you cannot dismiss that particular egregious incident as "just a bad apple." It was borne of a particular culture, fed by a particular culture, reinforced even now by that culture.

This is true when it is torture of "enemy combatants," and it is true when it's bad comments on Youtube, and it is true when it's unaddressed -- or even reinforced and encouraged! -- comments on feminist sites that feeds into any of varying oppressions.

But, of course, this sort of thing is borne of *the culture they are part of* and don't particularly feel like critically examining -- so it is "just a bad apple," not representative, and so forth.

This is what comes of a "health"-obsessed, "safety"-obsessed, purity-obsessed movement. And it is time to fight against it.

amandaw (threeriversblog.com)

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[info]invisibleu
2009-05-22 10:53 pm UTC (link)
Just one thing I want to say.

Don isn't 'defective', he's not a clock or vcr or dvd player or anything that can be sent back to the manufacturer or retailer.

Don is Don; he's a perfect Don, he's the only one of him in the world. (here comes my little religious bit) Don was made perfectly by God to be exactly who he is. God doesn't make damaged goods. God made Don perfectly and I thank God for making Don. I thank God for allowing Don to be in my life for the time he was in Edmonton, and for the times I see his presence online either on his own, or represented by you.

Don is perfect.

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[info]invisibleu
2009-05-22 10:56 pm UTC (link)
And so are you and so am I.

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[info]queenlyzard
2009-05-25 04:51 pm UTC (link)
*nods*

I've been reading through the comments on that post, and while there were a few insensitive and ablist ones, I was impressed with the overall level of thoughtfulness. I may have to join that community...

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