Anna ([info]troubleinchina) wrote,
@ 2008-04-23 21:10:00
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Entry tags:open source boobs program, open source women back each oher up prog

Open Source Women Back Each Other Up Program
Starting here at [info]vito_excalibur

(I have edited this a bit to reflect my not being her)

Here's my pledge: if I see somebody groping you in public, and you're not moaning Yes! Yes! Yes!, I will break through your Somebody Else's Problem invisibility field and come over and ask if you're okay. If your situation looks dangerous enough I can't help on my own, I will call over friends or, if it's situation in which I think the cops would be on your side, I will call the cops. If you're being harassed by someone, you can say so to me, even if you don't know me. I pledge I will distract him so you can get away, or I will tell him that he needs to leave, or whatever I can do to the best of my ability. I pledge that yes, actually, because you are a woman I will give you the benefit of the doubt. If you tell me that a guy just did something shitty to you I will not refuse to look at any evidence and tell you that I know him and he's a great guy and you must have been imagining things. I have great loyalty to my male friends but I will not allow that to blind me to the fact that none of us are saints and even my best friends can screw up and may need to be called on it. I pledge that I will walk you to your car if you don't feel safe walking alone at night, and then you can drive me to mine.

Yes, even at Wiscon.I pledge that even if I don't know you, if there is a creepy guy following you around, you can say so, and I will not say to you go hide in your room; I will say to him go find another party, or if necessary, go home. I will come with you if you need to talk to the con organizers. I will not make you feel like your right to control over your own body is not a big deal.

And I will do this whether or not I like you, or even know you. It's not about liking you. It's about the fact that we need to back each other up, and I will need you to do this for me some day.

And I say this knowing that the first thing that is going to happen is that someone is going to start talking about how if everyone did this then women could just lie about men and get them kicked out of places. Well, obviously I don't want that to happen. I realize that this is open to abuse. You know what else is open to abuse? THE FUCKING STATUS QUO. If the choice is between the possibility of men worrying that if they offend a woman she can easily get them kicked out of a con, and the actuality of women quietly staying home from cons in droves because they don't want men to harass them; quietly saying nothing about their harassment because they know people will tell them it's no big deal, or it's never happened to them and so frankly they don't believe in it; I am going to deal with the problem that actually exists first. Should we somehow get to the point where the stereotype of a SF con is wall-to-wall women in razorwire bras, and men don't show their faces because they're afraid of being arrested; we can go ahead and work on that problem then.


Anecdote:

I have no idea why I kept LARPing after my first experience.

Before I tell this story, I will say this: The organiser of the event I'm about to talk about is someone I consider a very good friend to this day. He was much younger then than he is now. I also suspect that he has no recollection of this event, nor do I blame him for that.

But fuck my first LARP was shitty.

See, I was playing this character who was mortal at a vampire game. I didn't know most of the people at the game - I'd only recently moved to the city, and I was a bit worried about what this strange vampire-LARPing thing was and how it worked. But, I went with my then-lover and close friend and figured everything would be fine. I expressed my worry and discomfort to the game organiser, who let me play this mortal character who wouldn't be much involved in anything and let me get a feel for the stuff.

Except for the bit where one of the male players used Vampire-Powers on my character to make her think she was naked (or was it get naked) and then a bunch of guys I didn't know surrounded me and started commenting on my body. Oh, sure, they were nice comments and maybe I should have been flattered.

Instead, I felt incredibly disturbed, objectified, and uncomfortable. So I walked out before the scene ended, because if I'm going to feel that uncomfortable, I'm going to leave.

The game organiser, who missed most of this, chased after me and assured me that these guys were nice guys, they didn't mean anything by it, it was just foolishness, he was really sorry it had happened, and could I please come back. I have to give props where it's due - he tried really hard to make me feel comfortable after that.

But I still remember that feeling, that leering and commenting, and how, in the end, only one guy apologised for making me uncomfortable. The rest of them pretended it didn't happen.

I wish more folks would stop pretending this stuff didn't happen, that it didn't affect or sour people's perceptions of gaming, of Cons, of science fiction fandom. As I'm reading and following the Free Range Open Source Boobs Project as it makes its merry way around the internet, I'm having a hard time remembering how much fun I had the two years I went to ConVersion in Calgary. I've always talked so glowingly of that Con because of how safe it felt, how wonderful and, frankly, how attractive I felt there. Guys treated me like I was Pretty Enough, and it was nice. I'm aware that it's pretty pathetically shallow of me to think a space where I got to be Pretty Enough added to my enjoyment of a Con, but I don't feel Pretty Enough very often.

And yet, reading comment after comment of "this is why I don't go to Cons", "these guys are why I don't game anymore", "this is just disgusting me and turning my stomach"... I can't pretend this stuff doesn't happen because it's happened to me. I can't pretend that I haven't felt seriously pressured sexually at games and Cons, and how that's affected my feelings about those games afterwards. I can't pretend that people around me who were aware I was uncomfortable didn't just ignore it, because some folks did - and I've never forgotten that feeling.

So, here is my pledge to the Open Source Women Back Each Other Up Program. I'm here. I won't ignore you or pretend it's not happening. I won't pretend that women don't make other women feel sexually pressured, either, because I've felt that too.

I pledge to believe you - to believe you if you tell me you're okay, to believe you if I'm flirting with you and you ask me to back off, to believe you if you tell me that someone else made you uncomfortable enough to want to leave.

I believe you.

Let's have each other's backs.


For the Menfolk in the crowd:

"In addition, I think that YCR members should be proactive, following a "Friends don't let friends be Creepy Guys" policy. More than serving as distractions for Creepy Guys or as back to the Backup as described, we YCR men can look at our friends, and say,"Dude, you're being a dick. Stop it." before things get to the point where the Backup has to intervene. And, if a situation warrants it, we can educate them in the wrongness of said behavior, so that they go forth and be Creepy no more."... This is what women cannot do for ourselves. We cannot be guys talking to other guys. That is a job only the Gentlemen's Auxiliary can do. Guys. Talk to each other. I promise most of you can be lots of fun. You will enjoy it. There can be beer involved! It is traditional. Go to!



(39 comments) - (Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2008-04-24 12:45 am UTC (link)
"Except for the bit where one of the male players used Vampire-Powers on my character to make her think she was naked (or was it get naked) and then a bunch of guys I didn't know surrounded me and started commenting on my body. Oh, sure, they were nice comments and maybe I should have been flattered."

Holy shit on a stick! Please tell me who this was so that I can go retcon some entirely OOC violence on their well-deserving ass.

James
(of the BrokenID)

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-24 12:49 am UTC (link)
For what's it worth, I haven't laid eyes on any of them in some time - and that was *before* I left for Scotland.

At least one of them has been banned from the Wake, which strangely made me feel better - it wasn't just *me*.

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(Anonymous)
2008-04-24 01:46 am UTC (link)
"it wasn't just *me*."

y'know, if I could change just one thing about the world, it would be this. I would magically make it so that the people who were responsible were the ones who felt guilty.

You are awesome, they are insensitive and ignorant at the most charitable reading possible, and also probably just jerks.

I will work to be a conscious part of this project.

James
(of the BrokenID)

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 02:33 am UTC (link)
(First, that made me wibble - I have been really emotionally on edge lately about having awesome men in my life.)

(And then my second got really long. I'll come back to it.)

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[info]pocketlama
2008-04-24 03:43 am UTC (link)
"Oh, sure, they were nice comments and maybe I should have been flattered."
Fuck that (as I'm sure you already know)! It's such a shitty double standard that says men have the right to undress you literally or figuratively and receive no sanction for it. Grrr.

It takes work to get past the "it's not my job" or, "I'm too scared/nervous/unsure to do this." I've done the work and believe me it is really gratifying to see the look on these dummies faces when I say, "that's not cool, you need to remove yourself from this spot." I've found that usually the guy is so startled he does move and doesn't come back.

Anyway, cool post!

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 02:31 am UTC (link)
Have you ever been threatened for it?

I mean, obviously sometimes people step in and the whole thing blows way out of control, but I'm more wondering individual experiences and the like.

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[info]pocketlama
2008-04-26 06:47 pm UTC (link)
I've been really fortunate in that I have only received nasty looks and the occasional word when doing this.

I really think this is due to my gentle but assertive nature. I'm a big guy and I carry myself with confidence but without the macho baggage. I think that helps keep the situations lower on the tension meter.

I talk as if I've done it tons of times. I think I've intervened 5 at the most. It's not that many times but enough to see some paterns.

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I hope I won't get killed for this comment
[info]odacamilla
2008-04-24 08:12 am UTC (link)
I am not quite sure what to say. The reason for this is based entirely in how women's worth is based entirely on how pretty they are, yet conversely you are not allowed to think you are pretty Lest The Sisterhood Get You.

But in the relatively safe place of your blog filled with people who will not deliberately misunderstand me, let me say this: I am pretty. I am curvy, have big eyes, and on top of that charisma. I know how to dress. I have mastered The Cleavage without being one of those women who wear slightly too small corsets.

And I have always felt safe at cons/larps/gamer-sphere because of how I have an intricate defence against unwanted attention which combined with my pretty keeps most creeps off: I am agressively, masculinely, obnoxiously hypersexual at anyone I am am not 100% comfortable around, whilst being a Nice Person.

I occationally see it as a character flaw, but in interaction with gamerkind it has been extremely useful.

I so support the Open Source Boobs programme, in that it is likey to make shy and lovely guys a bit more comfortable around womankind (a discomfort behaviour like the one I have described above from me and women like me have created in the first instance), but I am also very hesitant about making my boobs free range, as due to the aforementioned prettyness I can attract MANY creeps. And the sort of creeps that only make passes at women who are are within a certain range of what society has defined as "pretty".

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Re: I hope I won't get killed for this comment
[info]odacamilla
2008-04-24 08:24 am UTC (link)
Also, I have heard the argument "you shouldn't feel uncomfortable since you look like that and they are just poor geeks", and conversely "she should be fine with it because she doesn't look like she usually gets this attention"

Lose-Lose

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Re: I hope I won't get killed for this comment
[info]distaff_exile
2008-04-24 11:21 pm UTC (link)
Also, I have heard the argument "you shouldn't feel uncomfortable since you look like that and they are just poor geeks", and conversely "she should be fine with it because she doesn't look like she usually gets this attention"

That wins. That statement right there. Because, uh, no. "Looking like that" does not mean any "poor geeks" -- or, hey, any random subset of humans -- are entitled to anything from me. Plus, the "poor geeks" I've had trouble with tend to be skilled at skeeve and creepiness.

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Re: I hope I won't get killed for this comment
[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 02:25 am UTC (link)
IAWTC.

There's this whole vibe from [info]theferret's post of sexual healing through the power of boobies, and I'm just not here to sexually heal folks, you know?

I *get* the way that high school leaves scars. The whole Pretty Enough thing for me is a painful leftover from high school. But I don't go to Cons to fix that - I go to Cons to have a good time and geek out and all that stuff. My issues are mine, and either I will let them go or get over them, but it's no one else's job.

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Re: I hope I won't get killed for this comment
[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-24 10:56 am UTC (link)
I actually think it's very kind of you to disagree with me here, does that make sense?

I'm mulling around my responses to your comment, and have much on my mind at the moment about this whole thing, so I will take a bit.

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Re: I hope I won't get killed for this comment
[info]odacamilla
2008-04-24 11:03 am UTC (link)
not sure I agree or disagree. I think have a far too un-considered view/behaviour, and that I am constantly undermining/contradicting myself.

I am just struck how impossible it is to be "one of the guys" and at the same time very obviously female in a male-dominated and full of socially awkward men (and women)a place as Gamer-Sphere.

I need to go and think about this.

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Re: I hope I won't get killed for this comment
[info]redstapler
2008-04-25 05:04 pm UTC (link)
I am just struck how impossible it is to be "one of the guys" and at the same time very obviously female in a male-dominated and full of socially awkward men (and women)a place as Gamer-Sphere.

YES. THIS EXACTLY.

I went to a computer camp for six years. The two years I was a CIT, I was the only girl.

My concept of how to deal around guys, especially geek guys was completely organic for me. It was the very nature of my adolescence.

I've actually found myself more uncomfortable around non-geeky men than otherwise because of it.

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[info]looniewolf
2008-04-24 01:39 pm UTC (link)
I do have to agree with odacamilla on one thing: gamers tend to be a tad shy at times. Some of them overcompensate with aggressiveness and the like, but for the most part, an assertive woman will cow them.

As for the gaming... ugh. If I'd been there I'd be "WTF do you think you're doing?!?" and breaking OOC and all of that. Don't think that "it's roleplaying" gives people a pass on this sort of bullpucky. It doesn't. If someone is making you feel uncomfortable then TELL THEM.

(Not that discomfort is always bad. Roleplaying out a romance between two male (or one male, one nominally-male (more gender neutral but physically male)) helped me overcome a significant part of my homophobia (as in irrational fear, not hatred). It helped that the person roleplaying the gay male was actually a woman, but I still was bloody uncomfortable with the scene, which no doubt showed with body language and the like... but I still thank my friend for that roleplaying opportunity as it helped me overcome a dark and negative part of my psyche. But that is on an entirely different plane than the abuse you were put through, so I'll stop tangenting on it.)

OOC exists for a reason: to express opinions and comments outside of the roleplaying. If someone is making you feel uncomfortable, tell them to stop. Tell them that it's a game, and people are supposed to be having fun... and that this bull is diminishing your enjoyment of the situation.

Take care of yourself, lass.

Rob

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 02:26 am UTC (link)
I really want you to do me a very important favour, Rob:

I'd like you to comment on the substance of this post.

I appreciate your concern for my much-younger self, I really do - you know a lot of the history and background that I don't talk about here. I appreciate you talking about your own stuff around RPing and the like.

But please - I want your thoughts on the substance of the post. I *really* do. I really want to know what you, as a guy who is part of gamer culture, thinks of this.

Or I will be forced to bring up the bra-wearing aliens incident.

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[info]firynze
2008-04-24 01:47 pm UTC (link)
That ... oh my GOD, that is horrifying. I wouldn't have kept LARPing after that. O_o

And I really like this pledge. It is a good one.

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 02:22 am UTC (link)
I think it's an important one.

I think the next Con I go to, I will wear a button saying "I took the pledge", and hand out flyers.

Or maybe not, I don't know.

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[info]firynze
2008-04-25 02:26 am UTC (link)
I think you should. If I went to cons, I would totally do that.

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 02:34 am UTC (link)
I admit, the thing that makes me a tad leery about doing it is that I'm afraid of being attacked for it.

Sad, isn't it?

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[info]firynze
2008-04-25 12:46 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. :(

It's a very good idea, though, and anyone who attacked you for it would deserve to be slapped soundly with a trout.

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 01:21 pm UTC (link)
A lot of it is that whole "But we're all nice here!" mentality. Of course we all are - except the ones that aren't. And "Don't ruin the Con for me."

But it's okay for the Con to be ruined by people who put women in uncomfortable and/or dangerous situations and then get all defensive when called on it?

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[info]firynze
2008-04-25 01:23 pm UTC (link)
Yes, because you see, they didn't mean to upset anyone. They were trying to be empowering!

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 01:29 pm UTC (link)
And that's the thing! I mean, if he didn't mean to upset anyone, then why is being called on it so upsetting to him? Okay, he didn't mean anything by it. Now stop, because it is ruining the Con for others, it is making women not come out to the Con anymore, and it is making the rest of us look awful for putting up with it!

AAAAAAAAA!

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[info]firynze
2008-04-25 01:32 pm UTC (link)
I think it's partially a knee-jerk reaction in him to being brought face-to-face with his own privilege as a white male. It's probably not something he really thought about THAT hard in the past - and now he's being bitchslapped with it and that really can't be comfortable.

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 01:38 pm UTC (link)
If you're talking specifically about theferret - this isn't his first stab at LOOK AT MY CRAP OPINIONS ABOUT WOMEN.

here and here.

And that's not including the bit where he talks about how difficult it is to pick up a homeless woman for sex in order to improve his self-esteem.

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[info]firynze
2008-04-25 01:40 pm UTC (link)
*blinkity*

Right, glad I'd not seen any of that before and have just been picking up bits and pieces of this whole thing from my f-list. Because that would've made me stabbity.

Still does, but ... y'know, benefit of the doubt.

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 01:43 pm UTC (link)
Yeah.

I think my fav bit is his fauxpology where he says that he won't go to Cons in order to makes women more comfortable at them.

Dude, seriously - most women I know who don't go to Cons have never heard of you before today. Because YOU are just a symptom. The problem with men in Cons and how they treat GeekGirls like they're meat who are just there to be window dressing is far-reaching and not limited to him and his friends.

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[info]firynze
2008-04-25 01:47 pm UTC (link)
...my head hurts now.

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 01:51 pm UTC (link)
We could talk about alpacas.

I LIKE alpacas!

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[info]firynze
2008-04-25 02:02 pm UTC (link)
They're FUZZY!

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[info]pocketlama
2008-04-26 07:55 pm UTC (link)
I just got through reading Ferrett's apology and I thought it was sincere. Do you disagree?

Except for a couple of minor places he kept to the line of I did this, I'm responsible, I'm stupid, I'm sorry.

I like that, especially after so many years of shit like, "if anyone was hurt, I'm sorry," coming from public figures (not that he's a public figure or anything).

I'm open to being wrong because I am unfamilar with the atmosphere in Cons as well as the people involved.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-04-26 09:28 pm UTC (link)
I would wear a button that says "I took the pledge". I doubt I'd hand out flyers, though. I would answer anyone who asked about it with "The pledge to treat women like people and not to tolerate those who don't."

James
(of the BrokenID)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]padredon
2008-04-24 05:51 pm UTC (link)
I’ll add my voice to the others who think highly of the Women Back Each Other Up project and the Men’s Auxiliary. The pledge is amazing.

As for the Men’s Auxiliary and what we can do, I think the issue of guys talking to one another is very important. Whether its gaming, anime, reenactment or any number of other spheres, there are a lot of guys who are involved that will ignore a woman who calls them on their bad behavior. Those same guys will very likely back down if one of their male friends calls them on their statements or actions. Its a sad reality of the world we live in but if we, as men, have the power to reign in a problem before it gets out of hand then we have a responsibility to do so. In a better world anyone could call a creepy guy on his words or actions that are out of line and creepy guy would listen. Sadly we don’t live in that world.

Lord knows this isn’t an easy idea. I’m too polite by far and anyone who knows me, knows I’d rather run screaming for the hills than risk a confrontation. The theory of calling our male friends on their bad behavior may not be that hard but the practice is. Add the taboo in geek social circles of criticizing anyone and it just gets harder.

There’s another element to this too, for those of us who are part of the Men’s Auxiliary and that’s to remember the point that, “none of us are saints”. Even if we are working to be part of the Men’s Auxiliary, if someone calls us on something we do we have a responsibility to stop, own our actions and when we’re done taking responsibility for what we’ve done, to go away and think about why those actions were out of line so that we don’t do the same thing again.

On the broader scale we can use the same power that allows us to reign in Creepy guy to educate before a problem starts. If a guy says something asinine even out of earshot of any woman we still need to point out that they’re out of line and explain why. If we’re being really proactive we can even start conversations rather than waiting to make an example of someone’s bad behavior.

There’s a lot we, as the Auxiliary, can do in support. It may not be as dramatic as the front line work at a crisis point but its still important. It may not be easy for us but the need is still there. This is the role of the Men’s Auxiliary as I see it.

I invite comments and ideas from others.

(Reply to this)


[info]alya1989262
2008-04-24 09:20 pm UTC (link)
Dude, this is an awesome idea. And you know what? I'm going to try to apply it to my everyday life. Because, as I regularly moan about it, I live in a country where verbal harassment of women in the street is the norm, and I'm sick of it. So, the next time I see someone harassing a girl on the street, I will back her up; I will speak up and explain loudly to him and everyone present why this is wrong.

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 02:18 am UTC (link)
Good luck, Alya. *hug*

I have to admit, I find it a bit scary and intimidating to start intervening when I see things happening. I take advantage of the fact that I don't often walk alone.

But I have walked right up to women and asked them point blank "Is this man harassing you? Do you need help?" And then I believe her, whatever the answer is.

I think the fact that I'm right there in men's faces scares them off, but I'm not sure.

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[info]the_rook
2008-04-25 03:06 am UTC (link)
I'm glad so many of you are able to be rational and discuss this with openness and decency. I'm still stuck at hating my gender, geek culture, and the world in general.

I do, however, support the pledge, and my Y chromosome is in the fucking auxillary.

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[info]troubleinchina
2008-04-25 03:11 am UTC (link)
I think it's a lot easier for the majority of folks I know who are talking about this because we're women. A *lot* of men I know genuinely hate other men, either occasionally or constantly, and I cannot imagine what that must be like. Seeing Don deal with it is difficult.

I have always known that if I came to you with a problem, you would help. I've never forgotten that.

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[info]the_rook
2008-04-25 03:51 am UTC (link)
I just think that people, in general, take the path of least resistance. For men, that leaves us in an ugly fucking place.

But I thank you for understanding that some men are not all men.

I know, hell, that even you and I don't see eye to eye on all issues regarding gender issues. I also know, however, that you and I share a lot more beliefs than we disagree on. The most basic of these is that people, in general, need to behave more kindly and to a higher standard.

And you know I've got your back, chica. I'm glad you know it.

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